{"id":81263,"date":"2018-04-20T18:24:52","date_gmt":"2018-04-20T15:24:52","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/ngradio.gr\/?p=81263\/"},"modified":"2018-04-20T18:24:52","modified_gmt":"2018-04-20T15:24:52","slug":"mandy-patinkin-kathryn-grody-madly-love-40-years","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/ngradio.gr\/en\/news-el\/entertainment\/mandy-patinkin-kathryn-grody-madly-love-40-years\/","title":{"rendered":"Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody on Being Madly in Love for 40 Years"},"content":{"rendered":"

I\u2019m sitting across from\u00a0Mandy Patinkin<\/a>\u00a0and Kathryn Grody in a tiny student cafeteria at the Upper West Side\u2019s Jewish Theological Seminary. We\u2019re ostensibly here to talk about how their activist work intersects with their artistic pursuits and their Judaism, a topic they spoke about at length alongside their friend and fellow activist Ruth Messinger to a rapt audience just an hour or so earlier. But we just happen to be meeting on the 40th anniversary of their first date, in the exact space where they got married. So instead, I spend a totally delightful half-hour listening to them laugh, cry, and reminisce about their relationship, which is visibly intense, deeply loving, and, as Grody puts it, \u201cGrecian \u2014 as in comedy and drama.\u201d<\/p>\n

Patinkin and Grody have just returned from\u00a0Uganda,<\/a>\u00a0where they met with refugees in their continuing work with the\u00a0International Rescue Committee<\/a>\u00a0and the\u00a0American Jewish World Service<\/a>. Over the past few years, whenever Patinkin isn\u2019t filming\u00a0Homeland<\/em>,<\/a>\u00a0the two have been traveling all over the world\u00a0\u2014 Cambodia, Greece, Serbia \u2014 in an attempt to raise awareness about the ongoing refugee crisis and, as they put it, to \u201cbear witness\u201d to people whose voices have been all but silenced. They\u2019re ideal for this sort of work because of their ability to totally rivet an audience, whether they\u2019re sharing emotional stories about their travels to an auditorium full of people, or regaling a total stranger (me,\u00a0kind of<\/a>) with tales of their fiery courtship.<\/p>\n

Both Patinkin and Grody are Full Theater Kids, in the best possible sense \u2014 they don\u2019t tell stories as much as reenact them, interrupting each other to add colorful details, gesticulating wildly, swinging back and forth between tears and laughter. Below is an edited and condensed version of our conversation, which ranged from first kisses to fights about communism to lovingly mocking one another for acting like children on vacation.<\/p>\n

Vulture: Kathryn, you were just about to tell a story \u2014<\/strong>
\nKathryn Grody:<\/em>\u00a0When the [staff] just asked us if we knew how to get out of the building, I had this image of the time Mandy and I got locked in the Public Theater.<\/p>\n

What happened?<\/strong>
\nKG:<\/em>\u00a0I was in previews for my one-woman show, and my husband had a lot of notes for me, so we went downstairs to the dressing room and he gave them to me [jokingly rolls eyes<\/em>].\u00a0<\/em>And we came back up, and it was totally dark, and we were locked in \u2014 everyone thought we had left! We literally spent an hour trying to get out. So we had to call [theater producer] Joe Papp to come and let us out at three o\u2019clock in the morning.<\/p>\n

Mandy Patinkin:<\/em>\u00a0No, he didn\u2019t let us out.<\/p>\n

KG:\u00a0<\/em>I know, he didn\u2019t let us out. I was making the story shorter.<\/p>\n

MP:\u00a0<\/em>Oh, okay.<\/p>\n

How long were you locked in there?<\/strong>
\n<\/strong>MP:\u00a0<\/em>A long time. Two, two and a half hours.<\/p>\n

What\u2019d you do to entertain yourselves?<\/strong>
\n<\/strong>KG:\u00a0<\/em>Blamed each other about whose fault it was. If he hadn\u2019t given me so many notes, we wouldn\u2019t have gotten locked in the theater!<\/p>\n

MP:\u00a0<\/em>Yeah, it was my fault. Would\u2019ve never happened. It\u2019s a great sense of pride for me. Don\u2019t try to make it anyone else\u2019s fault!<\/p>\n

What\u2019s it like being back in the spot you got married? What\u2019s a specific memory that stands out to you both?<\/strong>
\nMP:\u00a0<\/em>We were eating around the corner once, on Amsterdam. We took our sons, who are grown men \u2014 they\u2019d never been here with us. So we talked our way in. The guards didn\u2019t wanna let us in. We just spent time in that space, took photographs. It was a powerful ceremony, an unforgettable day in my life. It\u2019s hallowed ground to me.<\/p>\n

\n
\n
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Mandy and Kathryn in Cambodia.<\/span>\u00a0Photo: Ruth Messinger<\/cite><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n

And it\u2019s the 40th anniversary of your first date. What\u2019d you guys do that day?<\/strong>
\n<\/strong>MP:<\/em>\u00a0We were doing a play; it was the Ensemble Studio Theater\u2019s first one-act play festival. I\u2019d gotten burned by somebody I was dating and doing a play with a year earlier, so I wouldn\u2019t go out with anybody I was working with until the play was over. And I was dying to get to know her! So we made a date for the Sunday when it was over. Saturday night, I sent her a gift, and I picked up some yellow-button mums that cost nothin\u2019, and some white spriggy stuff. And I showed up at Black Sheep Tavern, which is closed, a long time ago \u2014 we tried to go there today, it was on Washington and 11th Street.<\/p>\n

And I sat down and gave her the flowers, and I said, \u201cI\u2019m gonna marry you!\u201d She [pointed at me and said], \u201cYou!\u201d And I snapped a picture. We took a picture just like that today. I\u2019ll show you\u00a0[shows me photo on his phone].<\/em>\u00a0That was 40 years ago, today.<\/p>\n

KG:\u00a0<\/em>He had a camera out before he even sat down\u00a0<\/em>[Laughs<\/em>].<\/p>\n

How did you know you\u2019d marry her?<\/strong>
\nMP:<\/em>\u00a0I just knew. I tell people, when I have the privilege of talking to young people, I say, \u201cLook, get a partner. I don\u2019t care what your preference is, get a partner so you\u2019re not alone. And if you\u2019re really really lucky, try to find one where you can\u2019t explain what you feel.\u201d Because when the shit hits the fan \u2014 and it will \u2014 you need to remember that moment that you connected, and couldn\u2019t explain what you felt. That\u2019ll remind you to shut up long enough to calm down and continue.<\/p>\n

Kathryn, what was your reaction when he told you he was going to marry you?<\/strong>
\nKG:<\/em>\u00a0<\/strong>I said he was going to get very hurt, because I wasn\u2019t going to marry anybody. Because I didn\u2019t believe in it. And that sort of sums up our relationship!\u00a0<\/em>[Both laugh loudly.<\/em>]<\/p>\n

So what changed your mind?<\/strong>
\n<\/strong>KG:\u00a0<\/em>What changed my mind was the first kiss on the corner \u2014<\/p>\n

MP:<\/em>\u00a0That was a great moment.<\/p>\n

KG:<\/em>\u00a0And walking along the pier, crying. We spent the whole afternoon crying. First I explained to him why I didn\u2019t believe in marriage, which is a bourgeois institution. He said, \u201cWhat does bourgeois mean?\u201d That was the second concerning thing, besides that I had to tell him how to get to the Village. He lived here seven years and didn\u2019t know how to go downtown past 14th Street. Anyway, I didn\u2019t know myself well enough to know that I wasn\u2019t a Russian anarchist [Laughs<\/em>].<\/em><\/p>\n

What were you guys crying about all afternoon?<\/strong>
\n<\/strong>KG:\u00a0<\/em>He said the only thing that frightened him more than having a relationship was losing one with me. I said, \u201cOh, that\u2019s what everyone says, just wait.\u201d<\/p>\n

MP:\u00a0<\/em>And we were crying about common connections. She had lost her parents six months apart. I had lost my father about the same time her two parents died. And then we had a million other things. It was a profound day.<\/p>\n

I got to the Astor Place subway, after our walk, and sitting on stoops, walking and stoops, walking and stoops. And I said, \u201cAre you free tomorrow?\u201d And she said, \u201cNo.\u201d I said, \u201cWhat about Tuesday?\u201d She said, \u201cI\u2019m busy.\u201d \u201cOkay, Wednesday?\u201d She said, \u201cI have plans.\u201d I said, \u201cWell, when are you free?\u201d \u201cThursday,\u201d she said.\u201d I said, \u201cI gotta wait till Thursday?!\u201d[Laughs.<\/em>]\u00a0<\/em>She said yes. I did.<\/p>\n

What happened Thursday?<\/strong>
\n<\/strong>KG<\/em>: Second date, I remember \u2014<\/p>\n

MP:<\/em>\u00a0Was that the one where I put my head on the table?\u00a0<\/em>[Both laugh.<\/em>]<\/p>\n

KG:<\/em>\u00a0No, that was the third.<\/p>\n

Why\u2019d you put your head on the table?<\/strong><\/p>\n

KG:\u00a0<\/em>He was tired! The second date \u2014<\/p>\n

MP:<\/em>\u00a0That wasn\u2019t the movie, was it? Where you screamed at me outside of the movie? Or screamed during the movie? And I said, \u201cYou can\u2019t do that with me in a movie!\u201d [Laughs.<\/em>]<\/p>\n

KG:<\/em>\u00a0No, no. What I remember about the second date is that you asked me if I had a savings account. And I looked at him and I said, \u201cA savings account?! I\u2019m an Off Broadway actress. I have an oak table and I\u2019ve been to Morocco. What a bourgeois question!\u201d And he said, \u201cWhat does bourgeois mean?\u201d And I went, \u201cOh man, this is not a good idea.\u201d<\/p>\n

How long until you proposed?<\/strong>
\n<\/strong>MP:\u00a0<\/em>One year before we got engaged, one year after that we got married. We got married June 15, 1980.<\/p>\n

What\u2019s the most profound thing you\u2019ve each learned from each other?<\/strong>
\n<\/strong>KG:<\/em>\u00a0Oh gosh. Is this an overnight? For me, there is no way of feeling the depth of staying together for 40 years. You share it, you\u2019ve created a common history. You see a lot of marriages you don\u2019t want to be like, and you have the illusion you\u2019ll never cause each other pain, and then you kill each other. But there\u2019s something in getting through all that.<\/p>\n

I remember Henry Fonda was watching him in\u00a0Evita<\/em>, and at the intermission, I happened to be sitting in front of him, and I heard him say, \u201cThis couldn\u2019t be this Pad-inkin fellow\u2019s first musical!\u201d<\/p>\n

And I went, \u201cExcuse me, Mr. Fonda, it is.\u201d And he turned and looked at me and said, \u201cOh, are you related?\u201d And that\u2019s when it really struck me. I said, \u201cAbout to be.\u201d We\u2019re related. We\u2019re kin and we made a family.<\/p>\n

We talk a lot about being stunned about being older. Some days it\u2019s really shocking. But even when it\u2019s shocking, I see him as the person I first met. I see that person in him now. So I get more of him. I get the gorgeous young guy and the gorgeous old guy.<\/p>\n

What about you, Mandy?<\/strong>
\nMP:<\/em>\u00a0I never experienced unconditional love until I met her. [He tears up.<\/em>]<\/p>\n

I love this conversation.<\/strong>
\nKG:<\/em>\u00a0I do, too.<\/p>\n

When did you both realize you had these shared values surrounding activism and Judaism and theater?\u00a0<\/strong>
\n<\/strong>MP:\u00a0<\/em>We didn\u2019t have it, at the beginning. I did not know I was political. I was a person from a synagogue. My parents were \u201cMen\u2019s Club\u201d and \u201cSisterhood\u201d; I didn\u2019t know if they were Democrat or Republican. Kathryn was very political, she was a social activist in California, and brought that into my life. These events we went to \u2014 the first one, she took me to a Citizen Soldier event, where her ex-boyfriend right before me was the guy who blew the whistle on Agent Orange and was fundraising at some house.<\/p>\n

\n
\n
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Mandy and Kathryn in Uganda.<\/span>\u00a0Photo: Tara Todras-Witehill\/International Rescue Committee<\/cite><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n

KG:\u00a0<\/em>Oh my god, Mandy, you know one story we didn\u2019t tell [at the talk tonight]?<\/p>\n

MP:<\/em>\u00a0Thank god there were some! [Both laugh.<\/em>]<\/p>\n

KG:\u00a0<\/em>I know, honey. Oh my god. This is honestly an extraordinary transition to me. One of the worst things a couple can do is think they\u2019ll change each other, right? It wasn\u2019t changing, but there were things we didn\u2019t know about each other. When we were married for six months, I had an event at the house \u2014<\/p>\n

MP:<\/em>\u00a0Oh!<\/p>\n

KG:\u00a0<\/em>For the Film Fund of El Salvador. And it was when the war was going on, and these El Salvadorians came, and we raised $3,000, which was such a fortune then. And it was a thrilling discussion, there had been 25 or 30 people at the house. And when everybody left, I turned to him, and I said, \u201cOh! Was that great!\u201d And I look at him, and he\u2019s about the color of this sheet of paper. And he said, \u201cKathryn, you just raised money for a communist organization. The FBI is going to ruin my career!\u201d<\/p>\n

And I looked at him, and it was one of those moments where I thought, \u201cHow did I marry this guy?!\u201d I said, \u201cThe FBI? Who gives a shit about your career? It\u2019s not the FBI\u2019s business what you do in your home! [Pounds table.<\/em>] This wasn\u2019t communist propaganda, it was the right side\u2019s propaganda!\u201d It was terrifying to me. I thought, \u201cHow did I say yes to this?\u201d<\/p>\n

MP:\u00a0<\/em>[Laughing throughout<\/em>]\u00a0<\/em>One of the great ironies of my life is that later on, I become involved in the show\u00a0Criminal Minds<\/em>\u00a0and play this behavioral analysis guy, and I became very dear friends with someone from the FBI who\u2019s one of those people. And we go to Quantico for his retirement ceremony, and everybody at the FBI wants to know me and be my friend, because I was this guy. And same with the CIA, because they like the way they\u2019re portrayed on\u00a0Homeland.<\/em>\u00a0All of the guys I was terrified of that night \u2014 we know them all, we have dinner with them!<\/p>\n

KG:\u00a0<\/em>We\u2019re very well behaved.<\/p>\n

Mandy, I interviewed you when I was at the\u00a0Sun-Times\u00a0<\/em><\/strong>about five years ago<\/strong><\/a>, and you talked about how moments in life \u201cget you in the kishkes.\u201d What was the last thing that got you in the kishkes?<\/strong>
\nMP:<\/em>\u00a0The play Kathryn just did, written by Susan Miller, called\u00a020th Century Blues<\/em>. A lot of intellectuals we knew would see the play, and they started getting picky about what the writer should have done. I\u2019ve seen it many times in its first incarnation, and then I saw it several times here; I was shooting\u00a0Homeland<\/em>\u00a0in Richmond, Virginia, but I\u2019d come home for the previews and the opening.<\/p>\n

Kathryn loves it, as I do, if she doesn\u2019t know when I\u2019m gonna be there. When you know a friend or somebody you care about is gonna be there, you get nervous, and it\u2019s not a free performance. So it was a cold night, I forget what I was doing, I got free, I knew she didn\u2019t know I would be there, I\u2019m racing through Manhattan, I get there, I sit in a balcony in a corner so nobody knows I\u2019m there. And I\u2019ve seen it five, six times, so I\u2019m just there to be a good sport \u2014<\/p>\n

KG:\u00a0<\/em>A good husband.<\/p>\n

MP:\u00a0<\/em>A good husband, thanks. And I\u2019m sitting there, and there\u2019s one moment where four women who\u2019ve known each other their whole lives, and meet every year to have a reunion \u2014 one of them is a photographer, and she\u2019s taken pictures. And they open the box of the pictures. And I lost it. Three other times that evening, I almost had to leave the theater, for moments of human behavior and interaction of these four women who\u2019d known each other their whole lives and are now in our age group \u2014 a life lived, hopefully with some left. I was overwhelmed. And I said to people, \u201cWhoever has any criticism for this play, to hell with them.\u201d<\/p>\n

When I least expected it, got me in the kishkes so much that I almost had to leave the theater because I was worried I was going to disturb the place with my sobs. And I had to choke so hard just to be quiet. And it came in waves, one after another.<\/p>\n

Kathryn, do you ever feel that way about his work?<\/strong>
\nKG:\u00a0<\/em>Yeah. When I hear him sing [Stephen Sondheim\u2019s] \u201cBeing Alive,\u201d that\u2019s our song \u2014 \u201csomebody hold you too tight, somebody love you too much.\u201d I\u2019m overwhelmed by how he still moves me. And it\u2019s the same thing \u2014 I\u2019ve seen him sing that song a million times. And I lose it every time.<\/p>\n